What is something everyone can agree on?
Posted on Nov 29th, 2007
by 
C.G.
C.G.
This is in Response to the Questions and Reflections for November 29, 2007:
Umm...that Questions and Reflections for November 29, 2007 is literally "What is something everyone can agree on?"
I thought about answering, "....that there is nothing that everyone can agree on", but I rather hope someone has some insight on why we cannot even agree on that..
I thought about answering, "....that there is nothing that everyone can agree on", but I rather hope someone has some insight on why we cannot even agree on that..
Access: Public
agreement
July 2008
you can't ever agree with anyone 100%, not if you are thinking for yourself. Though I upset one of my philosophy professors when I told him that, because he said he agreed completely with certain philosophers… LOL
we all have our own unique perspective on things. And we might kinda share similar views on things with other people, but we are the only one with our own individual point of view and our own very unique set of experiences from which to draw our conclusions.
this, I agree (but not 100%, of course).
We, as separate identities, exist in our own reality, and our realities sometime have what seems to be overlapping areas. It is the vagueness of our language that allows us to believe we agree–if we defined our points with sufficient preciseness, we would find that we do not agree (completely).
This, however, is not a “lonely” philosophy, though…..for “We as separate identities” is an illusion. If we were to define our point with the preciseness beyond words, we would find that we are One…therefore, in agreement (beyond concept, words, and identitiy).
Oneness is a concept that comes from introspection, though. I hear that you must find yourself, inside yourself, before you can realize the connections between all things. I'm not there yet. I have trouble with the concept of Oneness, though I do see everyone and everything as inter-related and connected. I'm still at the “I think, therefor I am” stage, and contemplating all that this thinking thing I am thinks about. Maybe I'll find that Oneness someday, I seem a lot closer to finding/understanding it than certain other people who give it lots of lip service.
…but really they are only repeating someone else's words rather than thinking for themselves - ha! back on topic! :-D
“Those who know do not say….”
so I will agree that the talk is ultimately just talk…..without action. Besides all the world is not meant to believe/know any particular thing. One cannot see in an environment of only light (a blank sheet of paper)…shadow/dark is required for contrast, and therefore development of form
I suspect you know interconnectedness (oneness) quite well…I am certain you did not” think” yourself into loving your children.You are one with them.
What is this?
An interesting conversation?
I almost didn't recognize it.
C.G. Wrote “…that there is nothing that everyone can agree on”, but I rather hope someone has some insight on WHY we cannot even agree on that.
Opposition is what fosters LIFE. The perfect polarization of positive and negative (yin/yang)causes the reproduction of life. We all agree eventually we will all be dead. We all will achieve peace sooner or later. Why rush it?
Hey…
We ought to agree on one thing. That “the seeds of all things exist in you as in me”. But we may not. And that's okay. Who wants to admit that the seeds…evil…fear…greed…jealousy…anger…and all that good stuff Nature outfitted us with are mere tools for survival? ;-)
And then there is transcendence. And that of course is a whole new topic up for debate…
Sure Mr. Lace, death is the most certain thing but then there are universal souls with the inner vision who will disagree by saying there are no deaths, no births…no beginning, no end… Ah. Good news. These enlightened beings collectively agree that we shouldn't rush it.
PS: C.J. Did you managed to solve the mystery of the crone's symbol? Awesome.
Amy :-)
I didn't know there was a mystery of the Waning Moon ie Crone's Symbol.
Wow, Victoria….and sorry that the day job made me miss so much of this (and now I am off for another appt…
Amy….yes, I'm sure someone will not agree on transcendence and the “seeds of all, within.” Yes, I was having a real hard time coming up with something that everyone could agree on without some effort just to be disagreeable.
–can't wait until I have a chance to see others' answers, but this week has not allowed me much time to play in Zaadz.
Oh yes, Amy….I'm just letting the symbol and people's reactions to it instruct me….as is the case with every little t hing the muses provide. I would expect that your poetry is the same way. One think one know's the message of one's creation, and then someone else opens our eyes to something we had been blind to.
On death: just another dress of clothes for another day. I will have not gone away, just (in most cases) the conscious link to the day before….and those who loved me (again, in most cases) will not be able to visit where I will be.
Mr. Lace….waning moon….very interesting. Yes, in a world of duality, we must have pairs of opposite. Draw into existence any point of view from the unmanifest Tao and we have automatically created its converse opinion.
Thanks, everyone…..wish I had been able to be here for more of this conversation.
We'll try again sometime real soon…..
Mr. Lace. Beautiful. Never thought of that…the waning moon and the crone…
And C.G. so right. I so like this. “One think one know's the message of one's creation, and then someone else opens our eyes to something we had been blind to.” Lol. I am laughing here. I see myself in it. Because when someone tries to open our eyes (for our own good i hope) we would rather resist it to the death. Sounds like an eye operation…
dual world
is here
for us to solve
by diving in-between
many perspectives…
one source
…despite the outward appearance
Amy…yes, I have always seemed to have had a habit of staying lodged until someone disturbed my hiding place. These days, the 'disturbances' are more expected than not.
True, hummingbird.
in thought…..duality
out of thougt….oneness
in thought…duality
out of thought….oneness
….the spiral of our existence.
Hummingbird, I think you are spot on. very succinct.
and since I linked to this post there, I'm linking to Martha's blog here, where I'm having a very similar conversation!!
Hi! I heard about this good conversation from friendstacy, and zoomed on over. Very interesting! Reading the whole journey of conversation and all its interesting turns and deepenings brought me many thoughts. Oh, busy buzzy thoughts. A primary one was in response to C.G.' s comment that the imprecision of our words provides an illusion of agreement, but if we were able to precisely convey our perspectives, we would find always some point of disagreement. The Goddess of Karma (love that name!) (I wonder if her house is all cleaner than mine?) reminded me of the holographic principle–that we all are a microcosm of the Universe, containing the seeds and potentialities of everything–good, evil, purple marshmallows, ideas of how to feed the hungry. Everything is in us, and we respond to our environment, both evoking and being evoked. (This relates to that discussion on my blog that friendstacy was kind enough to place above.) Because we have access to our opposites is a great reason to hang out with people who inspire rather than those who brutalize. And as Stacy mentioned, Hummingbird really put it so succinctly, that disagreement is what the world of opposites sets us up for anyway. How would we ever avoid that? So what I ended up wondering is: What the heck is agreement anyway? Probably, it's a kind of peace, that we can learn to make–after recognizing and honoring that unanimity is either rare or impossible.
As for me, I don't think death is meaningful except in terms of this particular physical body.
My stab at the thing we'd be most likely to all agree on is that “Kindness is better than unkindness.” However, I don't think we'd ever agree on what “kindness” is! :)
mmm… maybe it's about acceptance -
acceptance of differences?
acceptance, knowing what presents itself
is just another aspect…
of ourselves..
may be invisisble to our small self…
but part of the whole
Hey Martha!
Thanks for your lovely comment. So sweet of you to drop by.
It was a pleasure to read your wise words. Love the last paragraph. I once watched a nature show and there was this leopard running after a frightened deer and of course I felt like jumping into the TV and chasing the leopardess away. So kind of me, eh? Well…and then…I saw the hungry baby leopards.
Lol…If you are Martha Stewart…then of course your house is cleaner than mine…but psst…please…we gotta keep that a secret….I have a clean freak in my house and he will be stomping mad if he finds out another house in the universe is cleaner than his. (And since he cooks and takes care of my car…;-)
As for our inner houses…I'm sure we are both clutter free…or at least heading there…what with all this wisdom we are sharing daily, eh?
Thanks again. I will be checking out your blog every now and then.
Hey HummingBird. Love that word. “Acceptance” Its the key to harmony I think.
Ummmm….nice conversation to find this AM…Thanks Stacy, for broadening our connections (heading to Martha's after this…
Martha, thanks for sharing. I always enjoy your insights. Yes, the explanation of just what is agreement is important and I love your definition. Though I know not everyone will agree…I have heard suggested that a minimal achievement in peaceful interaction is “to agree to disagree.”
Yes…and if we could only agree to just what is kindness. I guess I can only hope to treat myself with the kindness of feeling I am honest in the belief that I am acting toward others in kindness in any given effort.
—vagueness in language may be a good thing. Too much precision could result in a koan meltdown!
HummingBird….acceptance of differences. Thank you.
Yes, in our illusion–as if any other, no matter how bizarre they may seem to our conscious mind, could be completely alien to us (a bit of yang in the yin-and vice versa–in the Tai Chi symbol). As Martha pointed out with the holographic concept…the pattern of All is within everything. Within any one of our cells is the information to completely recreate (even the most dreadful horrors and the most blessed holiness) the universe as it exists now.
If something was uttermost on the fringes of being alien to us, we would not be able to perceive it. Not that it would not exist, but it would be in the dark side of our perception.
Goddess, I remember a lecture by Joseph Campbell where he speaks of animal coming in willing sacrifice to give its own life in the participation of life, so that another may live. He speaks of the problem with our society being that we have become so separated from our food that we do not realize that such a sacrifice should be honored. In doing so, and recognizing the willing sacrifice, the one sacrificed continues to life within us–as a continued part of life.
I enjoyed a place in Richard Bach's Illusions where “the messiah” is pointing out that the Golden rule does not work. What is one was a masochist? Would treating another as I wished to be treated be a kindness?
Guess it comes around to whether or not we are ever treating another with kindness, since our best effort is doing some action that we can only (consciously) know (until their response) is our idea of kindness.
CG wrote: (a bit of yang in the the yin a in the Tai Chi symbol)
I must correct you …it's the symbol of the “I Ching” all movements in martial arts come from “I Ching” .which is the original mental martial .
People ponder “ Which came 1st the chicken or the egg?” This is actually a joke. the answer is :
Everyone knows Eggs can't cum!
Mr. Lace….yes, but it's also called the Yin/Yang symbol and my Tai Chi teachers often call it the Tai Chi symbol…one thing of many names.
C.G. I love your quiet wisdom and your comment on “Joseph Campbell where he speaks of animal coming in willing sacrifice to give its own life in the participation of life” I am suddenly reminded of the following quote. I see it as the art of survival.
“Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows that it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows that it must out run the slowest gazelle or it will starve. It does not matter whether you are a lion or gazelle. When the sun comes up you had better be running.” Anonymous
And it got me thinking…something has got to give here. If not subconscious kindness, then what?
I am being funny now. If I was the gazelle, and I have no mouths to feed…nothing significant to live for…I might feel sorry for the Lion and say…”hey buddy…I am all yours…come and get me.” Lol. I say it bravely now but I'll be a big chicken then…
And speaking about chickens, here I cross the road again. Perhaps, I am no chicken. Ah. Mr. Lace. I knew that was a joke. And sure everyone knows eggs.com. Maybe the egg can't feel it…but when it splits open to give birth to zee baby chick…..isn't that a climax of some sort? Lol. I am just being funny. But I love zee joke. Thanks.
wonderful quote, Goddess….yes, we'd better be carrying out the part we have been given to play (and therefore our nature) to its fullest.
…and thank you for your kindness.
CG wrote: “but it's also called the Yin/Yang symbol and my Tai Chi teachers often call it the Tai Chi symbol…one thing of many names.”
Ask your Tai Chi Chuan instructors if they know from “I Ching”. If not then they do not know that their Tai Chi Chuan movements come from the mental movements of “I Ching” then maybe they can learn from you.
The Yin/Yang symbol is in the center of the North Korean Flag. Should we also call the Yin/Yang symbol the North Korean Symbol?
Don't you love The opposition game? It's like the Tai Chi Chuan game of “Push/Pull”
The Goddess of Karma ….. Maybe the egg can't feel it…but when it splits open to give birth to zee baby chick…..isn't that a climax of some sort? Lol.
I'm a Male I don't lay eggs just chicks that are chic. ;=)~